Transcript: RN Breakfast

PATRICIA KARVELAS: The Morrison government has scrapped its highly contentious funding freeze on the ABC. It’s announced the national broadcaster will be given $3.3 billion over the next three years. That’s an increase of $87 million over the current triennium. And SBS will have its own taxpayer support boosted to just over $950 million over the same period. Paul Fletcher is the Minister for Communications and my guest this morning. Paul Fletcher, welcome.

PAUL FLETCHER: Good to be with you, Patricia.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Now, the funding freeze has been a running sore between the government and the ABC since it was imposed in 2018. Why are you lifting it now? Is it all to do with the election in four months’ time?

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, the Morrison government is providing committed and growing funding to the ABC and SBS -- $4.2 billion – from 1 July 2022 to 30 June 2025. So that’s the three-year funding period, the triennium. We’re announcing this decision now so that the national broadcasters have certainty in their planning processes. And obviously what we do is we work through the budget submissions from the national broadcasters, weigh up what their proposals are and then make a decision. And that’s what we’ve done and we’re announcing that today.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay. But resuming indexation will no doubt be popular in all those inner city seats where sitting Liberals are being challenged, particularly by independents. Isn’t this just one less grievance for those independents to campaign on? I mean, it seems like there is a political dimension to this, too?

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, we’ve made an assessment based upon the needs of the national broadcasters and that we think is in the interests of supporting them and the important work that they do. You know, the Morrison government has been a strong supporter of our national broadcasters – ABC and SBS – including, for example through our news media bargaining code. We got that through the parliament this time last year. There was a lot of scepticism that we’d be able to successfully take on Google and Facebook. But just before Christmas the ABC announced that its employing almost 50 additional journalists in regional Australia with the proceeds of the extra revenue it’s been able to secure from Google and Facebook thanks to the news media bargaining code.

So that’s just one of a number of ways in which the Morrison government supports the important work of the ABC and the SBS. And with this announcement today of committed and growing funding of $4.2 billion for the ABC and SBS over the three-year funding period, that’s consistent with the approach that we’ve taken.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Minister, cynics in the community might say this isn’t really consistent with what looks like a campaign that’s been run by your government against the ABC – you know, key MPs really scrutinising the ABC and making political points about the ABC. How is it consistent?

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, let’s be clear: the ABC receives a substantial amount of taxpayers’ money and it’s appropriate that it be properly scrutinised in what it does. So we make no apology for seeking to ensure that the ABC meets its obligations under the Australian Broadcasting Corporation Act. And, for example, in what I’ve announced today I’ve announced that I’m issuing a statement of expectations to the ABC. We’re asking it to report annually on regional staff numbers and regional programming.

And we’re also asking both the ABC and SBS to report on their Australian content broken down by genre. We want reporting that’s similar in format to that which we presently get from the commercial broadcasters because, curiously, at the moment, there is no formal reporting requirement. So there’s no inconsistency at all between appropriate scrutiny of ABC and SBS to ensure they’re doing the work they should be doing while at the same time making funding decisions.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Minister, there’s the ABC Act and the ABC charter. Aren’t you just imposing another layer of control and scrutiny on the public broadcaster?

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, what we are asking them to do is to report specifically on certain matters – in particular, their staffing and programming in regional and remote Australia, and also detailed reporting on their Australian content. I don’t think those are onerous or unreasonable expectations in the context of an organisation that is going to receive over the next three years $3284.9 million. So we are giving the ABC secure and increasing funding, and with that comes some additional expectations in terms of reporting to the Australian people.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: At the same time you’ve been arguing that the ABC didn’t face budget cuts, but you are saying that now the funding is being restored. How can you have it both ways when ultimately there were – what – 250 jobs that have been lost as a result of your freezing your indexation?

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, can I just reject your characterisation of that, Patricia. What we do is make an assessment of funding needs of the ABC and of SBS, just as we make an assessment of the funding needs of all of the other organisations and programs which have a claim or seek to make a call on the budget. And ultimately the government, the Prime Minister, the Treasurer, the Expenditure Review Committee of cabinet make these decisions about how taxpayers’ money is to be allocated. And we’ve made a decision in relation to the resources to be allocated to the ABC and SBS over coming years.

We look at a range of factors. For example, in relation to SBS the funding over the next three years includes additional funding for news services in community – additional community languages. So we look at the various circumstances and the needs. For the ABC, for example, there is funding for what’s called enhanced news gathering. That is $45.8 million over the three-year period commencing 1 July 2022. So we’ve made these decisions based upon an assessment of the activities of the national broadcasters, the submissions they’ve made to government and to my department, and we’ve reached the decision and that is what we’re announcing today.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Minister, the announcement locks in funding for the next three years. ABC management has welcomed the certainty. But can you guarantee a re-elected coalition government won’t go after the broadcaster again the next time the triennial funding is on the table?

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, Patricia, what I can commit to is the funding that we’ve announced today over the three-year period and successive governments – Liberal and Labor – have provided funding for our national broadcasters in three-year periods going back I think some 20 years. So that gives the ABC and SBS certainty for planning purposes. And that is very important. And that’s the basis of the decision that we’ve made today.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: You’ve written about the need for impartial journalism and, to quote you, the board and ABC editorial staff need to resist the siren call of the Labor Party. Are you saying the ABC is biased against the government, and do you have any evidence of that?

PAUL FLETCHER: I’m saying it’s very important that the ABC is careful to avoid either the reality or the perception of political bias and, indeed, that is the clear expectation of the parliament in the Australian Broadcasting Corporation Act, which says that the ABC’s news gathers should be accurate and impartial according to the recognised standards of objective journalism. Every now and then when I’ve pointed this out some ABC journalists have seemed a bit surprised, but that is what the act says. That is the parliament’s direction to the ABC. And as we come into an election period where, of course, our political opponents will make every attempt to seek to secure political advantage and try and present some perception that there’s a difference in the attitudes of the major parties to our national broadcasters, it's very important that the ABC itself is scrupulously objective and impartial.

The Morrison government has been a strong supporter of the ABC and SBS. And the decision, the funding decision we’re announcing today -- $3284.9 million of funding for the ABC over the next three years – is consistent with that strong support.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Minister, you say that the government’s been a strong supporter of the ABC. Look, I’m seeing a lot of commentary here on our tweet line saying there’s no evidence of that. You obviously cut funding to the ABC – I know you contest that – but indexation was frozen so, therefore effectively the ABC’s funding didn’t grow and we’ve had numerous MPs on your side of politics attacking the ABC.

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, let’s be clear, Patricia: expecting the ABC to meet the standards required of it by the parliament, seeking for the ABC to be the best possible organisation it can be, having high expectations of how the ABC serves all Australians – those in the inner city, those in the outer suburbs, those in regional and remote Australia – that is not attacking the ABC. That is asking the ABC to live up to the high expectations that the parliament has of it and the Australian people have of it.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: There’s been a lot of commentary, minister, about the line of questioning that Scott Morrison endured at the Press Club last week. Is it the job of journalists just to keep prime ministers to account? You know some people believe the gallery overstepped the mark. Do you think it was fair?

PAUL FLETCHER: Think it’s always unfortunate when political journalists want to focus on soap opera-type aspects and who said what about whom. But the fact is the Morrison government is not letting that distract us from our important work. And that’s why in my portfolio I’m making this significant announcement today about ABC funding. I might add, there’s also a set of announces about future reforms of the media sector and continuing the work that we’ve done in our media reform green paper. We will be announcing – we’ve announced a formal legislative requirement for streaming services to report on their Australian content. And if they don’t meet 5 per cent of their Australian revenue being spent on Australian content then the minister of the day will have the power to impose a formal Australian content requirement.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: But –

PAUL FLETCHER: My point is that there’s a lot of serious work going on in my portfolio and every portfolio across the government. And that is what we are here to do on behalf of the Australian people.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Yeah, but the government –

PAUL FLETCHER: And if political journalists want to engage in soap opera-type gossip and speculation, that’s really a matter for them.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: So –

PAUL FLETCHER: But what we’re getting on with is the responsibilities we’re charged with by the Australian people.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Minister, I’m trying to interrupt here to make this point – and I’d love to hear your thoughts on this – when Labor were at each other’s throats – I remember it very, very well during the Rudd-Gillard year – you were pretty happy with political journalists covering that soap opera, am I right?

PAUL FLETCHER: Look, I disagree with that characterisation.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: You were. Your side of politics was pretty happy with the media focusing on what was a soap opera – and it was. Why shouldn’t the media be doing the same for your government when the same sort of theatrics are playing out?

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, I don’t think the same sort of theatrics are playing out. We’re getting on with the issues of managing the pandemic, keeping Australians safe and the economic recovery from the pandemic -- unemployment at 4.2 per cent. The Prime Minister committed last week his aspiration, his target, of unemployment by the end of the year being a number with a 3 in front of it. Now that is a very important objective and, frankly, what is disappointing is that the press gallery didn’t think it was important to even consider that or discuss that because they were more interested in soap opera-type issues. But we just accept the way things are –

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay.

PAUL FLETCHER: – and get on with meeting the needs of the Australian people.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: We certainly covered the unemployment pledge absolutely with a lot of vigour and time. Look, Scott Morrison has been called a liar and a hypocrite by Barnaby Joyce, and it seems he was branded a complete psycho by another unnamed minister. Is this how your own side thinks of him? What are voters to make of Scott Morrison?

PAUL FLETCHER: What voters should make of Scott Morrison is a person first of all of personal integrity. And I say that having known him for over 20 years, worked with him in the parliament for a long time, a person passionately committed to getting the best outcomes for Australians, and a man who works with extraordinary dedication. The last three years in particular have been extremely intense. Now, he doesn’t – that’s the job he signed up for and he’s very happy to do it. But he’s a committed, passionate Australian determined to lead a government delivering the best outcomes for Australians.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: And is he the same asset he was for the Coalition three years ago now?

PAUL FLETCHER: Yeah, I believe that Scott Morrison is recognised by the great majority of the Australian people as somebody who is working hard in their best interests and has a clear plan for Australia. And I think –

PATRICIA KARVELAS: You don’t think voters are angry with him?

PAUL FLETCHER: Look, this election will be a choice – do you want Scott Morrison as prime minister, do you want Anthony Albanese as prime minister. Do you want –

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Yeah, I know that’s now you want to frame it, but my question was: don’t you think voters are angry with him?

PAUL FLETCHER: I think voters will make a decision about the leader who can best take Australia forward. That’s somebody with the experience that Scott Morrison has – several years as Prime Minister, Treasurer, on the National Security Committee, somebody who’s known for the strong and tough decisions he’s prepared to take against somebody who has no experience in security areas of – in his portfolio background or an economic portfolio.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay.

PAUL FLETCHER: Do Australians really want to take the risk on an unproven leader?

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Thanks for your time this morning, minister.

PAUL FLETCHER: Thanks, Patricia.

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Minister for Communications and the Arts Paul Fletcher.