TRANSCRIPT - ABC WITH GREG JENNETT

GREG JENNETT: Paul Fletcher, welcome back to the program. I'm sure word has reached you about your friend and former colleague Ken Wyatt quitting his membership for reasons that we understand to be either protest or disgust at the opposition to the Voice arrived at yesterday. How is this not to be seen as a broader condemnation from the Liberal Party base of that decision?

PAUL FLETCHER: Well, can I say that I have enormous respect for Ken Wyatt. I think that's a respect that is felt right across the Liberal Party room. Obviously I respect his decision and I'll leave it to Ken, obviously, to comment on it. What I would say - it is very important that we have a respectful process across Australia as we go through this referendum in relation to the Voice. We've been clear in what we announced yesterday that, while we may well propose amendments through the committee process over the next few weeks, we will support the bill which allows the referendum to go forward so that Australians can have their say. And of course, we'll be participating in this process in a respectful way, making the case - and it is very important that Australians hear the case from both sides. That's one reason why we argue very strongly that there ought to be written pamphlets for the Yes and No case, as has been required by legislation for referendums for many years. The government, for some mysterious reason, sought to remove that normal requirement. But our view was it was very important that, into households around the country, there should be a pamphlet that sets out the reasons for the Yes and No case. This is an important question for the people of Australia, and we want to participate in what is a respectful process. And I want to be clear in respect of Ken Wyatt and, more broadly, in the way we ought to approach politics and public policy - you can very much maintain friendships with people even when you have a disagreement with them on a substantive matter.

JENNETT: I'm sure that's the case, and I do want to pick up on constitutional alteration bill and other matters, Paul Fletcher. But just one more, if I may, on Ken Wyatt - nothing can diminish his status as a respected leader of the Indigenous community, apart from his Liberal Party membership, so this act by him is clearly an adverse judgement from Indigenous Australia, isn't it?

FLETCHER: Well, again, I'll leave it to Ken to comment as to the reasons as to why he's taken the decision that he has. I've seen the news that he has chosen to leave the Liberal Party and I've not seen a statement from him as to his reasons why. Of course, Ken is a very respected Australian, a very distinguished Australian. I worked closely with Ken on a number of matters, particularly when I was Minister for the Arts. We worked together on the Indigenous art and building the market for Indigenous art. Often in remote communities, the Indigenous arts centre is a major area of economic activity, providing meaningful employment, but also a wonderful way in which Indigenous culture can be better understood by people who are not Indigenous.

JENNETT: Sure.

FLETCHER: So Indigenous art is just one of the many ways in which our Indigenous Australians, our First Australians who've been here for 60,000 years, have a very distinctive voice and perspective. And the more that can be supported, the better.

JENNETT: Alright. Let's move on. How will you, Paul Fletcher, be campaigning? And how actively, over the next six months?

FLETCHER: Well, I'm a member of the shadow cabinet, which arrived at the position that we then took to the party room and that was endorsed by the party room yesterday. What I'll be doing on this issue, as with every issue, is making the case for Liberal Party policy, responding to questions and concerns...

JENNETT: Spending money attending rallies, calling community meetings?

FLETCHER: Well, I will be making the case for Liberal Party policy on this issue, as I do across all issues. And that's the nature of being part of the Liberal Party room and being a shadow minister. Of course, on these issues, naturally the leader and the spokesperson - so, Julian Leeser - have key roles. But it falls to all of us as Liberal parliamentarians, and certainly members of shadow cabinet, to be making the case for our policies. And I'll be doing that on this issue, as I do across the whole range of issues that we have policies on.

JENNETT: And you will vote No? Would you be prepared, perhaps using your mobile phone or anything else, to do Show And Tell on that when voting day comes around, to confirm that you do vote No?

FLETCHER: In terms of how individuals vote in the referendum?

JENNETT: Yeah.

FLETCHER: That'll be a matter for individuals. But can can I make it clear, in relation to the bill...

JENNETT: Well, how will you vote?

FLETCHER: I'll be making my judgement based upon all of the considerations and information that becomes available. But clearly I'm a member of shadow cabinet, I support the Liberal Party's position that was arrived at yesterday.

JENNETT: Right. But you can't campaign No, bound by that decision, can you, and in the privacy of the ballot box vote Yes? That would be disingenuous. Are you leaving that option open?

FLETCHER: What I'm saying to you is that I'm a member of shadow cabinet. Shadow cabinet arrived at a position yesterday endorsed by the party room, and I'm supporting that position.

JENNETT: Alright. You've referred to the constitutional alteration bill, which you will be supporting. It strikes me as odd for a few reasons, because you oppose the most important contents within that bill. Is this decision to vote yes in order to save dissident frontbenchers from having to resign their position or, in the case of backbenchers, having to cross the floor if that were put to the vote and the party room had been told to vote against it?

FLETCHER: No, not at all, Greg. What this is about is that we recognise that this is a matter on which the Australian people are entitled to have their say. We'll be doing what we can over the next few weeks through the committee process to test the form of words that's contained in the bill to make recommendations for changes should that be the judgement of Liberal members on that committee - people like Keith Wolahan and Andrew Bragg. Ultimately, we've been clear we'll support the bill so that the referendum process can proceed. The Australian people are entitled to have their say. We recognise that the Labor Party went to the last election with a promise to take this to a referendum, and we acknowledge that they won the election - of course, that's a matter of fact. So we think it's appropriate that we should support the referendum process going forward. But what we want there to be is a respectful discussion across the nation about the merits of this proposed change. And it's very important that that be a calmly informed -- that that be calmly informed by the arguments by those in support of the proposed change and those who think that the proposed change has not been made out. And it's important, as part of that, that we're clear on the facts. So, what is the significance of the precise wording of the constitutional amendment that the government has proposed? Particularly where it says that the Voice may make representations to the parliament and to executive government on matters...

JENNETT: Sure, but you're not going to, from here, be able to, in all faith, negotiate changes to that wording through the committee process - the dye is cast now, isn't it, by virtue of yesterday's party-room decision? The committee process is null and void, really.

FLETCHER: Well, that's entirely a matter for the government, really. If the government were to indicate that it was open to considering amendments, if we were to put forward amendments, that would be a matter for the government to take those up. I mean, let's go through the process. Let's see what the evidence is that comes forward. Let's allow the committee to conduct its deliberations. But the government has provided for this step of the process. We think it's appropriate that they've done that. We'll participate in that in good faith. We've got a number of Liberal Party members who are on that committee. They'll consider the evidence before them. They'll arrive at a position. What they come up with may or may not be included in the majority report. That'll be a matter for the committee. If there are things they come up with that the rest of the committee doesn't agree with then, of course, in the normal way, they would likely produce a minority dissenting report. My point is we're engaging with this process in good faith. What's very important is that the Australian people are as well-informed as they can be in advance of voting as to the issues and what the case is from those who are arguing for this particular change to the Constitution and from those who argue that this particular change to the Constitution in the case hasn't been made out, and that there may be a better and alternative ways to deal with the underlying issue on which there is unanimous agreement - that we must improve the welfare and position of so many Indigenous Australians on matters like life span, infant mortality - when you look at all the Closing the Gap indicators, it's uncontentious. And the evidence is overwhelming that Indigenous Australians face significant disadvantage.

JENNETT: Indeed it is. We won't contest that with you, Paul Fletcher. Can I get you to take it back home to Bradfield, though? 24 hours since you made that decision here in Canberra. Are you entirely certain that the No advocacy you're about to embark upon - however wholeheartedly or not - is completely in line with the general view or majority view within your own electorate there?

FLETCHER: Well, ultimately on every issue that comes before the parliament, a parliamentarian needs to make a judgement as to the position that he or she arrives at. Obviously you do that in consultation with your electorate in seeking to understand the views of your electorate. And what is undoubtedly the case on any issue - this issue or any other issue - is that whichever position you take of the 110,000 people approximately who are in this electorate - similar numbers in most other electorates - there will be a substantial number of people who will not agree with the position you take.

JENNETT: Well, all of that is to be revealed when the ballot boxes are up-ended, it looks like in October or November. Paul Fletcher, we'll speak before then.

FLETCHER: Thanks, Greg.