TRANSCRIPT - ABC RN WITH PATRICIA KARVELAS

E&OE

 

Topics: NSW Election, The Voice, Future of Liberal Party

 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: After last year's federal election, the Liberal Party reduced to some of their lowest numbers in history, took a deep look at what went wrong? But Saturday's result in NSW, the State poll shows there's still a lot more work to be done. Paul Fletcher is the Manager of Opposition Business in the House of Representatives in the Federal Parliament and a Federal MP for this for Sydney's north. And here's our guest this morning, Paul Fletcher welcome. 

PAUL FLETCHER: Good to be with you, Patricia. 

KARVELAS: Your Liberal colleagues conducted a review and found that the lessons had to be learned. Why was there still such a negative result. What went wrong? 

FLETCHER: Well, I think the first point is that after three terms and 12 years, inevitably it becomes harder to win a fourth term, it's the nature of our democracy, of Australian democracy that the electorate starts to look for alternatives. And of course, 12 years of good government, extraordinary roll out of infrastructure, Metro, NW, Metro City and South East, WestConnex, NorthConnex, new schools, hospitals all across Sydney, all across NSW. A government with a very good track record. But inevitably after 12 years. It's not surprising that people look for a change that's been a pattern in Australian politics for decades. 

KARVELAS: OK, there's no doubt that there needs time factor has to be part of it. Are there other issues though, some legacy issues for the Liberal brand? 

FLETCHER: Well, obviously every political party needs to look closely anytime you lose an election. We obviously looked closely at why we lost the 2022 election federally. And clearly, we'll look closely at why we've lost the state election in NSW in 2023. But it's important to make the point that there remains plenty of talent in the NSW Liberal Party rooms. Some great new members coming in at this election. Kellie Sloane and Vaucluse, Stephanie Di Pasqua in Drummoyne, Matt Cross in Davidson, and Tina Ayyad in Holsworthy. And of course, we'll be being working on being an effective opposition, holding to account a New Labor premier and a New Labor government, and already unions NSW is calling for strong increases in public sector wages and people will rightly say, well, how is this going to be paid for? How will this contribute to inflationary pressures at a time when we already have inflation in Australia, which is at the highest level for more than 30 years and look cost of living was certainly an issue in this election. But that's a question that Mister Albanese at federally also needs to answer. He promised many times a $275 reduction. Yeah, in power bills. Power bills are actually going up. 

KARVELAS: Now, the Federal Liberal Party lost six safe seats to the the so-called teals 10 months ago. But some of the same overlapping areas were saved in this election in the NSW state election. Do you attribute that to the position that the state governments taken had taken the the previous government now on things like climate change? 

FLETCHER: Well, I think you're right to say that some of the hype about the teals in the NSW election didn't live up to reality. In North Sydney in Lane Cove in Manly, the Liberal incumbents Felicity Wilson, Anthony Roberts, James Griffin, all excellent MPs have all been returned. Pittwater is very, very close at the moment. The independent, marginally ahead, but we'll have to see where the final voting ends up. You know, the fifth seat Woolondilly, where one of the Climate 200 supported candidate was running, Judy Hannon, who's been elected as an independent. She's been a local mayor for many years. She's very, very impressive. I worked with her on Western Sydney Airport issues when she was mayor of Wollondilly. So the point I'm making is that we have seen independents elected in the NSW election also, you could point to Michael Regan in Wakehurst, but these are independents who have many years of being prominent local mayors. As opposed to what we saw in the federal election, where people with really no political profile or track record had their name recognition go from zero to quite high in a short time through spending massive amounts of money, $2,000,000 or more in some of those seats are a troubling Americanization of Australian politics. I think what we've seen in this NSW is that people have wised up a bit to that particular model and... 

KARVELAS: …But I asked you a question about the the state government position, the Perrottet governments. I'll be specific on climate change, it was criticised by some in the right of your party, but did they get it right? When it comes to seats like that? 

FLETCHER: Well, I think the Perito government did a good job across the whole range of areas. You know, the challenge of government is you've got to solve for a lot of problems at once. Of course, we have to be reducing emissions. That's why federally we committed to net zero by 2050. But you've also got to maintain stable, reliable energy prices. You've got to do lots of different things at once to succeed in government. And the Perrottet government and before it, you know, for good premiers and Barry O’Farrell, Mike Baird, Gladys Berejiklian, Dominic Perottet, they have left NSW in so much of a better position. The mess we inherited in 2011, remember when Bob Carr was premier, he said. Sydney was full. The infrastructure story under Labor in NSW was a joke. Sydney was groaning at the seams and what we now have is a transformed Sydney a transform NSW in a a four lane motorway all the way to the Queensland Border. 

KARVELAS: OK. But with respect, you haven't answered my question, which is on the the the single issue of climate change. Do you think you kept those seats in those leafy suburbs because the Perrottet government was taking action on climate change? 

FLETCHER: Well, look, I think there was a range of factors, but certainly I think that people in electorates all across NSW, but certainly in the northern parts of Sydney, looked at the overall track record of the of the Perito government and there were plenty of things where there is an enormous amount to point to but at the same time after 12 years, history tells us it is difficult to hold on and win a fourth term. 

KARVELAS: Your colleague Andrew Bragg has warned the party not to lurch towards the margins and the right. Do you agree? 

FLETCHER: We're a mainstream political party in a system of compulsory voting, which in my view is a very good thing. It keeps both major parties focused on the centre and that is where you win elections, as John Howard has repeatedly pointed out, when he started out in politics, typically there was 40% rusted on Labor. 40% rusted on Liberal and national and 20% contestable. It's now more like 30 at 30 and then 40 that's contestable. The imperative for the major parties, including certainly the Liberal Party, to be responsive to the concerns of mainstream Australians is absolutely fundamental. We're one of the parties of government, one of the big dangers that we face is the idea that if you keep adding more and more independents. That doesn't threaten the stability of government. It's very important we don't end up a country. Like Israel, like Belgium, where I think after one election for 10 months, they were wrangling about who was going to form government like Italy, where government changes regularly. The two party system has served both our nation and our states well. Now the imperative is on us as a Liberal Party to make the case of both federal and state level as to our capacity to go. Even in the interests of the broader community, and we'll obviously continue to do that at federal level and at state level to make that case very strongly. 

KARVELAS: That issue of lurching to the right this morning, the Victorian Liberal Party will vote on whether to expel Moira Deeming after she attended the anti transgender rally last week. Do you support the expulsion? 

FLETCHER: What I support is that the leader in Victoria and the party room in Victoria, our Victorian state colleagues will make the decision that they determine is in the best interests of the Liberal Party, but more importantly of the people of Victoria who they seek to serve. So I won't be offering gratuitous advice from the sidelines. They've got an important responsibility and I'm sure they'll discharge. That as they judge, is the best way to do so. 

KARVELAS: Would you be concerned about anyone going to those anti transgender demonstrations in your Party room. 

FLETCHER: Again, I'm not going to be offering commentary on these matters. There's a decision before the party room of the Victorian State Liberal Party and they'll make that decision, I'm sure. 

KARVELAS: No, OK, but what do you think of those demonstrations and of the of the arguments that they're making? 

FLETCHER: Well, clearly the notion that you had a group of Neo Nazis trying to speak up for a violent, hateful ideology is extremely troubling. That's why we in the federal Parliament last week introduced legislation to outlaw Nazi symbols. Surprisingly, the Albanese government have cited procedural reasons for not supporting it, but call on them. 

KARVELAS: But on the substantive? OK, but on the substantive issue of these demonstrations and what they're calling for. Do you think that there is a place for those views in the Liberal Party? 

FLETCHER: Look, I'm not going to be commenting on hypotheticals about particular demonstrations. 

KARVELAS: It's not hypothetical. There are people who are who, who are calling for Moira Deeming to stay in the party room and defending her right to align herself with this UK activist. 

FLETCHER: Well, Patricia, the question you asked me was about if a member of the Federal Parliamentary Liberal Party were to attend a particular demonstration. I'm not going to give a series of comments on the hypothetical possibilities because you're very ingenious, Patricia, and you'll come up with a long list of possibilities. 

KARVELAS: OK, but on the on the views. Do you think those views have a place in the Liberal Party room? 

FLETCHER: My view is that we are a party with a diverse range of views and what's very important is that we can have a vigorous exchange of views within our party room. We take our internal party democracy democratic process very seriously. And that is how it should be. And look, I'm not going to get into ruling in or ruling out particular viewpoints on this or any other issue in an abstract hypothetical way. 

KARVELAS: On this question around the Voice to Parliament, we have the final wording now announced by the government. It will go to committee process. As you know. Will the Liberal Party decide this week where it will line up on this question? 

FLETCHER: Well, we'll decide this matter on the timetable that we think. Is appropriate the... 

KARVELAS: Is that this week? 

FLETCHER: Well, the first thing to do is to wait and see the Bill. The next thing is there will be a parliamentary committee which will consider the Bill that will be an important opportunity for witnesses to appear before the Committee for Witness, for evidence to be given, to look at issues like what will be the impact on Government decision making, given that the wording that's been chosen now extends the voice to include executive government as well as ministers, does that mean that every decision which is made by any part of government, not just ministers, but within the public service for example could be subject to a successful legal challenge if it was determined that there had been inadequate consultation with the Voice. So these are these are quite technical legal questions in one sense, but they also have a very important implication for how it is that our Gov, our system of government operates. So I think there are some important issues that we need to work through. As now that the final form of the wording that will be put in the referendum and the wording of the proposed amendment of the Constitution, now that the government has committed to that, it's taken them a long time to. Yet there are some important questions to ask, and so we'll work through that process. We'll arrive at a decision going through our processes in the normal way normal way, including of course, our Liberal Party room. 

KARVELAS: Are you gonna run in Bradfield again at the next election? 

FLETCHER: Well, I'm committed to serving the people of Bradfield, Patricia. 

KARVELAS: That doesn't answer my question will you run again in Bradfield? 

FLETCHER: I am committed to serving the people of Bradfield. It'll be a matter for my pre selectors but... 

KARVELAS: But OK, they decide. Absolutely. That's democracy. But will you go before them and say I want another? 

FLETCHER: Yes, they do. Patricia, I continue to consider serving the people of Bradfield to be an enormous privilege. And so that's certainly what my intention is. 

KARVELAS: For this term, and you're considering whether you run again though. 

FLETCHER: Well, Patricia, any, any, any rational politician always consider what they're going do as you come to the end of each term. I've done that before the end of each past term. But what I can tell you is it's an honour to serve the people of Bradfield. I continue to be committed to it energetic in doing so, I spent most of Saturday across the whole range of polling booths engaging with my constituents. I enjoyed it. I found it energising and I believe that the Liberal Party has a a very important role in serving the people of Australia and certainly in serving the people of Bradfield. That's something I'm committed to. 

KARVELAS: OK for this term, and then you'll consider your position, right? 

FLETCHER: Patricia, I think any rational person would say exactly the same thing. I've considered my position before previous elections, but if you ask me, am I committed to serving the people of Bradfield? I'm absolutely committed to serving the people of Bradfield. 

KARVELAS: Would Matt Kean be a good candidate if you decide not to run again? 

FLETCHER: Again, I'm not going to get into hypotheticals other than, say, Matt Keen as a friend of mine, he has served very well in a number of senior roles in the NSW Parliament, including most recently as Treasurer and Minister for Energy, he's decided he's announced over the weekend that he won't be putting himself forward to be a candidate to be leader of the opposition, he's got a young family. I totally understand that he's worked incredibly intensely. Over the past few years, as has Dominic Perritte, as have all of the senior Liberal colleagues in NSW, I have to say I'm very proud of the work they have done for the people of NSW as they leave government and of course, we must always respect the will of the people, but as they leave government, the NSW liberal team and national team can take great pride in the fact that Sydney and NSW are in so much better shape now than the chaotic mess we inherited in 2011. 

KARVELAS: Thank you so much for your time. 

FLETCHER: Thanks, Patricia. 

KARVELAS: Manager of Opposition Business, Paul Fletcher. You're listening to RN breakfast.